Discussion Subject for this month: --- How to d..

45 w

Discussion Subject for this month:
--- How to determine 1 Abib and therefore the Feast dates. ---

I don't claim to know everything about the calendar issue. But from what I do know, I think it is best to stick with the Hillel II calendar that most Jewish people use and endorsed by the state of Israel.

Michael Rood and Steven Simons for example, use different variations of a sighted moon calendar. But this is the problem with this type of calendar. They do their projections. But if the date of the actual new moon is different from what is projected, the rest of the calendar has to be reajusted. That readjustment will change the dates of the feast days. This makes it harder to plan ahead if the dates of the feast days are subject to change. The advantage of the Hillel II calendar is that all the dates of the feasts are fixed, making it much easier to plan ahead. We live in a world where where we have to plan ahead or give advance notice, so the Hillel II calendar does that really good.

A good analogy is back in the early 20th century. In the olden days, most people didn't travel much. The clock would be determined locally by the town clock in the center of each town. But when the railroad was build going from town to town, a time system had to be made that covered a geographical area so that each town would be on the same time. Eventually, the world got divided through time zones. The Hillel II calendar enables everyone on Earth to be on the same page when it comes to keeping the feast days. The dates of the feasts are fixed which makes it easy to plan ahead months in advance. This is why I am in favor of the Hillel II calendar.

#moedim #1abib #determiningthefeastdates

Comment

I can fully understand your need for consistency with the calendar as it makes life so much easier when planning events. I believe Father uses reoccurring patterns and calculations, but He doesn't always work in the exact same manner so I shouldn't set my heart on these patterns being the same every time.

For instance, we can all agree that the Shabbat is holy. Why then was the nation instructed to march around Jerico on the Shabbat? If we strictly adhere to the 7-day pattern then they would have said that Father is breaking Torah to make them march on a Shabbat. But Father made all laws, so may do as He pleases.

The clock analogy makes perfect sense if the goal is to get everyone on the same time. Are we however looking for a similar time or date? A date is a lot more forgiving. For instance, I could be 2 weeks off with my calendar and then a messenger comes and gives me the correct date as he recorded it a week ago. I then do the math and adjust my calendar accordingly.

It makes me wonder how many farmers throughout history will stand in front of their wall calendar and then mark the next 12 months on their calendar of when they will be sowing and reaping. And then on those dates do according to their plan.

We have to remember that the Nation was primarily agrarian. Either they worked the land or their produce was dependent on the land. Very few things where shipped from China... 🤣

I lived in the wheat basked of South Africa for 8 years and the farmers all have a slightly different take on what the weather should be like before planting and reaping. Their soil moisture will also differ according to their local rainfall, altitude and the incline of the field. They will therefore harvest at slightly different dates. Some farmers might even have to replant their fields if their first planting failed...

What we need to remember is that all the nation was involved at Passover and First Fruit. It wasn't a race to find the first handful of Abib barley and then rush to declare that the year has started. Everyone who had barley had to be in a position to within 2 weeks from the start of the year to have their Abib barley; so the community was more in touch with one another. This would have brought a lot more certainty of the actual date to the entire nation in contrast to the small groups now a days going out to scout the land where there are very few barley fields left and everyone wanting to be first in the race.

I can fully understand your need for consistency with the calendar as it makes life so much easier when planning events.  I believe Father uses reoccurring patterns and calculations, but He doesn't always work in the exact same manner so I shouldn't set my heart on these patterns being the same every time.   
 
For instance, we can all agree that the Shabbat is holy.  Why then was the nation instructed to march around Jerico on the Shabbat?  If we strictly adhere to the 7-day pattern then they would have said that Father is breaking Torah to make them march on a Shabbat.  But Father made all laws, so may do as He pleases. 
 
The clock analogy makes perfect sense if the goal is to get everyone on the same time.  Are we however looking for a similar time or date?  A date is a lot more forgiving.  For instance, I could be 2 weeks off with my calendar and then a messenger comes and gives me the correct date as he recorded it a week ago.  I then do the math and adjust my calendar accordingly. 
 
It makes me wonder how many farmers throughout history will stand in front of their wall calendar and then mark the next 12 months on their calendar of when they will be sowing and reaping.  And then on those dates do according to their plan. 
 
We have to remember that the Nation was primarily agrarian.  Either they worked the land or their produce was dependent on the land.  Very few things where shipped from China... 🤣 
 
I lived in the wheat basked of South Africa for 8 years and the farmers all have a slightly different take on what the weather should be like before planting and reaping.  Their soil moisture will also differ according to their local rainfall, altitude and the incline of the field.  They will therefore harvest at slightly different dates.  Some farmers might even have to replant their fields if their first planting failed... 
 
What we need to remember is that all the nation was involved at Passover and First Fruit.  It wasn't a race to find the first handful of Abib barley and then rush to declare that the year has started.  Everyone who had barley had to be in a position to within 2 weeks from the start of the year to have their Abib barley; so the community was more in touch with one another.  This would have brought a lot more certainty of the actual date to the entire nation in contrast to the small groups now a days going out to scout the land where there are very few barley fields left and everyone wanting to be first in the race.

· Reply · 1705488430

I have a brief thought on top of Rhy’s.
I would have thought that agrarian culture would observe conditions as opposed to times, those conditions of seasons generally fell within a calendared period. Abib was the season when first green grains were generally observed in Egypt, so either the conditions were right in the month or the month began when conditions were right and the moon phase was then brought into line to designate the month.
Seasons are meant to bring conditions for growth.
So as a side thought, perhaps months worked on a sliding scale according the crop growth and harvest ?
Now that puts the calendar out for sure!

Moon phase and feast dates should be observed in Israel, I believe. Even here there must be inconsistency if dates and times were changed. Due to exilic cultural periods, it’s more than likely that they were!🥸

Personally , I don’t get hung up on moon phases. If we know the month and the date for the feasts , we just stick to what scripture says. Stops the arguments and divisions., I’d say.

· Reply · 1705493396

The problem with the hilel calendar is that it is usually slightly off from the scriptural reckoning. Sometimes it coincides, but not always. For instance, Yeshua said He had looked forward to celebrating "this Passover" with the disciples. We call it the last supper. I did some astronomical research into this. In 30 ce and I believe 33 ce, the crucifixion fell on the hilel passover. However, the last supper fell on the dark moon/scriptural passover. Hilel was off by a day in both those years. So, while most of Israel observed Passover, it was actually the first day of unleavened bread. Yeshua would not have callled the last supper "Passover" if it wasn't or He would've been lying.

· Reply · 1705504939

I mean, you could read Torah and it explains the times with the seasons. Abib is in spring; the true beginning of a year and the sprout of life. In the middle of a season that kills everything doesn’t make sense now that I think of it. When compared to spring where the plants come to life. Harvest is a certain amount of days away from first fruits. The beginning of winter is just after Sukkot for me. There are no feasts in the winter. Like Yahuah knew when humanity should hunker down and when it’s best for humanity to get out and produce. Yahuah knew and knows it all and He laid out the perfect path for us to follow, not “just because”, but because it is to our utmost benefit to follow Yahuah’s Torah. Humanity only has excuses for not standing in accord for Him. Trust me, I know all about excuses.

· Reply · 1705547118

I agree. Everyone off on their own calendar just creates chaos and division. The calendar of Israel was set by the High Priest, because all of the feasts centered on something happening under his supervision at the Temple. We have a pretty good idea of how things were done in the first century--even if there is a little ambiguity on a few points, like Passover--and we can be reasonably certain that Yeshua followed the same calendar as the Temple.

All of the arguments for lunar sabbath and Enochian calendars fall completely apart by simply looking at the Messiah. That doesn't answer every question about the calendar, one of which GidgetsMom points out above, but it does resolve the biggest and most divisive controversies.

Is the Hillel II calendar exactly right? Probably not, but the only point where I am confident in saying it's wrong is on the dates for Early Firstfruits and Shavuot. Until Yeshua returns to sort out all of our doctrinal disputes, that's good enough for me.

· Reply · 1705606734

I keep all the Holy Days on every day that the Hillel II calendar indicates, with the exception of Shavuot. I keep Shavuot on Sunday after the 7 week count.

· Reply · 1705774353

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