Something came up at our Sukkot gathering today th..

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Something came up at our Sukkot gathering today that I'd like to poll on. Did Yeshua ascend before it's recorded in Acts 1? Scriptures and thoughts in comments appreciated.

Ascended in Acts 1

Ascended before Acts 1 and then again in Acts 1

3 Total votes

Comment

If we accept that Luke and Acts are written by the same author then we could overlap Luke 24:50-53 and Acts 1:1-3 as the same telling in two different letters.

The author himself tells us that the ascension he mentioned at the end of his Gospel (Luke) happened "after... forty days." I am therefore thinking that Luke 24 is a summary, and Acts 1 is the detailed, chronological account of the same event.

· Reply · 1760085612

an interesting question.

reading luke, and then acts, as he is presumed the author of both, Yeshua ascended on what is implied to be the fourth day according to luke.
luke 24:1
- On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women came to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared. -
24:13
- That same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem -
24:29
- But they pleaded with Him, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening and the day is almost over.” -
24:33, after Yeshua had reclined with them, their eyes were opened and He disappeared from their sight.
- And they got up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem.
There they found the Eleven and those with them, gathered together -
24:36
- While they were describing these events, Yeshua Himself stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” -
and then 50 and 51
- 50When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven. -

so this is a contiguous sequence of events, which mark seems to confirm.

there are two problems.

when reading acts, the text could be interpreted both as that He ascended on the fourth day (according to luke's first book, his gospel, either during the night or the day, depending on how long it took) and 'after His suffering' (acts 1:3) He appeared again, ie returned,
or, considering luke 24:45
- Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. -
to take place over a total period of 40 days,
then acts 1:3
- After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. -
would then say He only ascended once.
in that case, as He first appeared to them on the third day, He would have ascended on the fortysecond day after His crucifixion.
four days, then ascending, then reappearing for another forty days, or, fortytwo days then ascending are numbers with significance.

the second problem is a bit more obtuse.
matthew, mark and luke indicate Yeshua was crucified in the friday before Sabbath, and so one has to count convolutedly to include just a portion of friday as a full day and only the first half of the first day of the week as a full day too to come to the third day of resurrection.
in fact, according to their accounts, Yeshua was resurrected within two full days. and that would make a single ascension taking place after fortyone days, not a significant number.
john, on the other hand, could indicate Yeshua was crucified on thursday, and that Passover was on the friday, the High Sabbath, and then followed by the normal Sabbath, this would make it within three full days.
i base that on the distinction at the time between preparation day, being for a normal Sabbath (synoptics), and day of preparation, being for a High Sabbath (john).
preparation day, among other things prepare for the Sabbath, day of preparation, a full day to prepare for the High Sabbath.
none of the synoptics indicate the Sabbath was a High Sabbath.
(even worse, matthew 27:62 says the pharisees approached pilate ON the Sabbath).
(i have touched on why there is this distinction, i won't go into that here)
john also indicates a timespan of many days between Yeshua's appearances.
unfortunately, reading john He could also have ascended twice or once...
john 20:17, where He says to mary
- “Do not cling to Me,” Yeshua said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” -
could mean He'd ascended and returned before showing Himself to the disciples.
john doesn't go into the ascension in the ending of his gospel.

but we can get back to a proper counting of 4 and 40 or 42.
now i clicked on two ascensions, but it's just too unclear, however one reads it.
so, the answer is probably to be found in the OT.
although i haven't looked in the epistles yet either.
let me pass the buck here, anybody see anything there?
(plus - interesting aside, can anybody correctly calculate the closest year to AD30 that the passover was on a friday?)

an interesting question. 
 
reading luke, and then acts, as he is presumed the author of both, Yeshua ascended on what is implied to be the fourth day according to luke. 
luke 24:1 
- On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women came to the tomb, bringing the spices they had prepared. - 
24:13 
- That same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem - 
24:29 
- But they pleaded with Him, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening and the day is almost over.” - 
24:33, after Yeshua had reclined with them, their eyes were opened and He disappeared from their sight. 
- And they got up that very hour and returned to Jerusalem.  
There they found the Eleven and those with them, gathered together - 
24:36 
- While they were describing these events, Yeshua Himself stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”  - 
and then 50 and 51 
- 50When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them. 51While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven. - 
 
so this is a contiguous sequence of events, which mark seems to confirm. 
 
there are two problems. 
 
when reading acts, the text could be interpreted both as that He ascended on the fourth day (according to luke's first book, his gospel, either during the night or the day, depending on how long it took) and 'after His suffering' (acts 1:3) He appeared again, ie returned,  
or, considering luke 24:45 
- Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures. - 
to take place over a total period of 40 days,  
then acts 1:3 
- After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. - 
would then say He only ascended once. 
in that case, as He first appeared to them on the third day, He would have ascended on the fortysecond day after His crucifixion. 
four days, then ascending, then reappearing for another forty days, or, fortytwo days then ascending are numbers with significance. 
 
the second problem is a bit more obtuse. 
matthew, mark and luke indicate Yeshua was crucified in the friday before Sabbath, and so one has to count convolutedly to include just a portion of friday as a full day and only the first half of the first day of the week as a full day too to come to the third day of resurrection. 
in fact, according to their accounts, Yeshua was resurrected within two full days. and that would make a single ascension taking place after fortyone days, not a significant number. 
john, on the other hand, could indicate Yeshua was crucified on thursday, and that Passover was on the friday, the High Sabbath, and then followed by the normal Sabbath, this would make it within three full days. 
i base that on the distinction at the time between preparation day, being for a normal Sabbath (synoptics), and day of preparation, being for a High Sabbath (john). 
preparation day, among other things prepare for the Sabbath, day of preparation, a full day to prepare for the High Sabbath. 
none of the synoptics indicate the Sabbath was a High Sabbath. 
(even worse, matthew 27:62 says the pharisees approached pilate ON the Sabbath). 
(i have touched on why there is this distinction, i won't go into that here) 
john also indicates a timespan of many days between Yeshua's appearances. 
unfortunately, reading john He could also have ascended twice or once... 
john 20:17, where He says to mary 
- “Do not cling to Me,” Yeshua said, “for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go and tell My brothers, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, to My God and your God.’” - 
could mean He'd ascended and returned before showing Himself to the disciples. 
john doesn't go into the ascension in the ending of his gospel. 
 
but we can get back to a proper counting of 4 and 40 or 42. 
now i clicked on two ascensions, but it's just too unclear, however one reads it. 
so, the answer is probably to be found in the OT. 
although i haven't looked in the epistles yet either. 
let me pass the buck here, anybody see anything there? 
(plus - interesting aside, can anybody correctly calculate the closest year to AD30 that the passover was on a friday?)

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