Fathers perfect will and His allowed will.....

2 yrs

Father's perfect will and His allowed will...

This is a two part question:

1. How do you know the difference between Father's perfect will and his allowed will as there is I can see a distinction between the two in Scripture?

An example: marriage - Father's perfect will in Gen 2:24 is that there shouldn't be any divorce, but in Deut 24:1 the "adendum" law is given about divorce. (This is just a quick example and it is a much bigger study.)

2. Which "will" should we strive to keep in our own walk; Father's perfect will and His allowed will?

Comment

Perfect will, of course!

· Reply · 1688658718

Shalom; nothing is the same since the second fall; the first fall being the angels; we go shopping, Adam and Eve didnt; we go to sporting events, entertainment. Our parents only needed YHUH and His Ruach. We go to banks. Our parents had no such need. Marriage is a broken institution as is all else. Thus the Torah are guidelines to regulate fallen behaviors until Messiah comes to of
fer, justification which He did at His perfect finished work.

So nothing is the same as it was originally designed. Once we start with that premise, His perfect will is a mere synonym for what He wants us to do, in that fallen state, awaiting kingdom immortality, when His perfect will will be restored to His elect. His perfect will ultimately will be for perfected beings.

· Reply · 1688680333

2 Replies

To use what the Messiah laid out, and the example you gave, Matthew 19. Yeshua states we shouldn't be divorcing, except in the cases He listed. So, if we are the interpret Scriptures of two wills, then Yeshua is pointing to what you call the perfect will as what we are striving for.

However, I don't see two wills. I see one will. The exceptions made, like divorce as you point out, are there for a reason. Even YHWH divorces his bride. To say that divorce isn't part of YHWH's perfect will and then have YHWH Himself divorce is to say YHWH isn't perfect.

Again using divorce as the example: should you keep divorce in mind as "an out" in your marriage? No! That's the whole point of what Yeshua was talking about. We shouldn't be looking for the outs, we should be looking to do everything we can to keep that marriage going. YHWH even kept His bride while they were committing adultery. It wasn't until later that He divorced part of the bride (House of Israel), but kept the other part (House of Judah) and stated they were way worse.

Following Torah is all about your heart. Everything should be done with a heart of wanting to please God. When we are striving for that, we see the exceptions and know they are there, but it isn't something that we look to as "okay I can do this", but there for when we struggle. Or in some cases like 2nd Passover and the "being on a journey", guesses on what that could mean and why it is there.

· Reply · 1688730143

8 Replies

God's perfect will is that we be perfect, of course. ? Unfortunately, until we all have his Torah completely written on our hearts, we won't have a full understanding of what that is.

We can know some of God's perfect will by reading the Scriptures and acting on that which is simple and clear. There is much in the Scriptures that is ambiguous or difficult to understand, though. Study, prayer, discussion, and time will help, but we always need to be willing to be wrong and change if it becomes clear that we have misunderstood something.

Living in a fallen world precludes living perfectly in some ways. God hates death and divorce, but both are sometimes necessary. Death is even commanded in some circumstances. We do the best we can with what we've been given and show grace towards our brothers and sisters who might disagree with us or who might be weaker in some respect.

· Reply · 1688735451

1 Reply

Well put by Brother Myers...

· Reply · 1688740119

@Jay again well thought out. I like the ruach im discerning
here; nice

· Reply · 1688740181

This important New Testament term indicates YHVH’s choice and determination, emanating from desire. Paul used a Greek word in Ephesians 1:5, 9, and 11 that conveys the idea of desire, even heart’s desire. The word is usually translated as “will” - “the will of YHVH.” But the English word “will” does not exactly express well the primary meaning. The Greek word (thelema) is primarily an emotional idea. “YHVH’s will” is not so much “YHVH’s intention” as it is “YHVH’s heart’s desire.” YHVH does have an intention, a purpose, a plan. It is called prothesis in Greek (1:11), and it literally means “a laying out beforehand” (like a blueprint). This plan was created by YHVH’s counsel (called boule in Greek, 1:11). However, behind the plan and the counsel was not just a mastermind but a heart-a heart of love and of good pleasure. Therefore, Paul talked about “the good pleasure of YHVH’s heart” (1:5). Paul also said, “He made known to us the mystery of his heart’s desire, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him” (1:9). Indeed, YHVH operated all things according to the counsel of his heart’s desire or will (1:11). The impetus of YHVH’s eternal purpose came from a heart’s desire, and that heart’s desire was to have many sons and daughters made like his only Son (Romans 8:26-28). In love, He predestined many people to participate in this-not by their own merits but by virtue of being in the Son (Ephesians 1:4-5). Notice how often in Ephesians 1 Paul speaks of the believers’ position “in him.” Outside of him (the Son), no one could be a son or daughter of YHVH and no one could be pleasing to the Father.

· Reply · 1688750962

4 Replies

When I came to the walk I looked at the Bible as a technical manual because that was my foundation. I had been in engineering and science for my career so that was how I digested information. From that perspective, I sought to find just the right recipe to have everything work very neatly, like an measuring instrument or an automated mechanism. As I grew, I realized that while the bible is often a technical manual, with dos and donts, its more about Yahweh's relationship with mankind. We see this in the New Testament with all sorts of people being grafted into the vine and then having to learn while doing. These are people who's starting points and foundational conditions are all over the map. This is exactly the same condition we are in coming to the truth in Babylon. While we grow, we discern Yahwe's will from our own changing perspectives because we are temporal creatures while He is not. The best thing we can do, brethren, is to emulate the early church while being informed through the Tanakh. The New Testament is clear on divorce, for instance. One should try to stay with an unbelieving spouse as much as possible. But one should not be in an abusive relationship. So while a person may not divorce, they surely can separate, for instance. How should we run our assemblies? Like the Levitical priesthood or like they did in the NT? The latter, obviously. How should we handle polygamy? Well, do we see anybody in the NT with multiple wives? In fact, do we see the apostles talk about their spouses at all?

Wherever possible, we should use the New Testament to inform us on Yahweh's will with the Tanakh as our foundation. That's what Paul and the other Apostles did. Yeshua's behavior and beliefs should take precedent, the later writings next, and then we can make informed decisions through the Ruach.

· Reply · 1688763722

7 Replies

Agree with your post...one slight thing; the NT cannot contradict Torah and fortunately does not even in 1 Tim 3:2. if leaders could be mono or plural in the Tanach, we know YAH never changes, Man does, Thus the literal reading is as follows:

3 This is a emet saying, if a man desires the office of a teaching-overseer, or shamesh, he desires a tov work.
2 A teaching overseeing shamesh then must be blameless, the husband by at least one-an echad isha, vigilant, sober, of tov behavior, given to hospitality, able to teach;
3 Not given to excessive wine, not a short-tempered brawler, not a lover of unjust gains; but patient and gentle;
4 One that oversees his own bayit well, having his children in subjection living in all purity;
5 For if a man knows not how to oversee his own bayit, how shall he take care of the kehilla of YHUH ?

· Reply · 1689008470

The actual Greek says MIA GUNAE a or at least A wife; There is no numerical qualification here, which lines up perferctly with Torah. If the word One and only one were intended, the word would be HEIS not MIA. In the gospels He ROSE on MIA ton SABBATON, one of the Shabbats...which one? One of the 52 every year! Same thoughts here expressed in 1 Tim 3:2. All leaders like Moses and Caleb OLD OR NEW COVENANT, can ONLY have as many as YAH gives, not his little head; but since YAH never chanages, leaders today can have more than one and is the perfect place to learn pastoral skills. For if a man can mainatin shalom in a home like that, he is well prepared for the many members of Messiah's body. If a man cannot rule his own home, neither can he any kehilla with more than one of Messiah's
brides!

· Reply · 1689008747

Yes makes perfect sense. One additional thought. I have written many books on this marriage business. Here is the truth. Neither monogamy or polygyny is YAHS perfect will, as marriage was not designed to be either. So an appeal to the ORIGINAL DESIGN, is full of presumption and superimposition. Not you bro but the topic itself. LOL More on this later.

· Reply · 1689009181

Let me add this; I truly appreciate for his balanced view on the only 2 forms of Torah marriage allowed. Becuase truth be told, this should be a place unlike most platforms, where both can be blessed and neither is condemed IF AND WHEN DONE RIGHT, which by the way is rare, which even though I support both forms, I still warn people about plural, as its extremely hard, UNLESS all the pieces see each other as vital pieces of the ministry's team not as adversaries. As teamates serving a higher calling when all the parties first choice would have been monogamy. Thus my advice not to do it without a sp
ecific calling that is verifiable from YAH Almighty.

· Reply · 1689009476

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