The Torah Network

3 yrs ·Youtube

RE: "Whom do you follow MOSES or Jesus" Poll?: 43% of respondents currently need more definition. The following video is the best video I have found to date dealing with this complex and difficult question. I don't know the makers of this video nor do I stand with what everelse they may be teaching... I do not presently see error in any of this teaching. Shalom.

Comment

I watched this video earlier today and do understand that we are all on different learning stages in our walk and will answer from that perspective rather than taking a hard-line approach and deleting the video as it goes against the T&Cs of TTN...

It is very important to discern what someone is teaching rather than reflecting one’s own beliefs on what you hear and then assume that you agree with what the other person is saying.

The short version, this video talks against keeping Torah as a believer in Yeshua and I don't endorse it.

The long version, and I don't have time to get into every point they raised so will only touch on certain key points.

They build their case by saying that circumcision is a law and then they say it is a sign; like the two things are equal to each other. They then build their message on the "fact" that circumcision is a law and that the apostles taught against physical circumcision. I do not see anywhere that circumcision is a law, but a sign of the covenant hence why we are taught that circumcision of the heart is more important than physical circumcision.

In the UK the law states that if there is a contract then it doesn't have to be signed for it to be binding. As long as both sides keep to the letter of the agreement then it is binding. Any action that then contravenes the contract is then a breach of contract.

That is why circumcision of the heart is more important that physical circumcision. If one keeps Torah then you don't need a sign to remind you as your heart is in it; it has been cut. On the contrary, if you don't keep Torah and have the physical sign of circumcision then it if no use. Hence why Yeshua pointed to the Pharisees.

So, not being physically circumcised is not breaking Torah as it isn't a law, but a sign. Similar for wearing tzitzit, which is not a law but a reminder to keep Torah.

Secondly, they say that Yeshua and His disciples didn't keep the entire Torah. Well, they couldn't have as they weren't Levitical priests, nor a women, etc. They and every one of us can only keep the part of Torah that relates to us. As a man, don't have to nor can't keep the law given to my wife or to a Levitical priest.

When the Torah stipulates that a sacrifice had to be done in Jerusalem at the temple and the temple is no longer there then that law can't be kept; well not yet.

If Yeshua taught his disciples anything different than what was written in the Tenakh then He, and they, would have been rejected in accordance to Deut 13. Not one Hebrew would have accepted Yeshua as their Messiah and to this day the Jews are still rejecting Him based on Deut 13.

The church is however rejecting Deut 13 and says that Yeshua came with new "revelations" and the church now knows more. No, in every instance that they talk about in the video Yeshua clarified Torah and He didn't abolish it.

Thirdly, the new covenant hasn't come into effect yet. Jer 31:34 is the key verse to understand what the sign is of when the new covenant is in effect. Let's read it in context... Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the [e]house of Israel (the Northern Kingdom) and with the house of Judah (the Southern Kingdom), 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” says the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says the LORD, “I will put My law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34And each man will no longer teach his neighbour and his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me [through personal experience], from the least of them to the greatest,” says the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness, and I will no longer remember their sin.”

We are all still teaching each other, so the new covenant isn't in place now; or we have missed the boat. The church's doctrine is so wrong on this subject.

My question will always be, why would Yeshua teach us the following Torah and then do the exact opposite? Matt 5:19 So whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them, he will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I have to put this back in your court, do you believe that we have to keep Torah?

I watched this video earlier today and do understand that we are all on different learning stages in our walk and will answer from that perspective rather than taking a hard-line approach and deleting the video as it goes against the T&Cs of TTN... 
 
It is very important to discern what someone is teaching rather than reflecting one’s own beliefs on what you hear and then assume that you agree with what the other person is saying. 
 
The short version, this video talks against keeping Torah as a believer in Yeshua and I don't endorse it. 
 
The long version, and I don't have time to get into every point they raised so will only touch on certain key points. 
 
They build their case by saying that circumcision is a law and then they say it is a sign; like the two things are equal to each other.  They then build their message on the "fact" that circumcision is a law and that the apostles taught against physical circumcision.  I do not see anywhere that circumcision is a law, but a sign of the covenant hence why we are taught that circumcision of the heart is more important than physical circumcision. 
 
In the UK the law states that if there is a contract then it doesn't have to be signed for it to be binding.  As long as both sides keep to the letter of the agreement then it is binding.  Any action that then contravenes the contract is then a breach of contract. 
 
That is why circumcision of the heart is more important that physical circumcision. If one keeps Torah then you don't need a sign to remind you as your heart is in it; it has been cut.  On the contrary, if you don't keep Torah and have the physical sign of circumcision then it if no use.  Hence why Yeshua pointed to the Pharisees. 
 
So, not being physically circumcised is not breaking Torah as it isn't a law, but a sign.  Similar for wearing tzitzit, which is not a law but a reminder to keep Torah. 
 
Secondly, they say that Yeshua and His disciples didn't keep the entire Torah.  Well, they couldn't have as they weren't Levitical priests, nor a women, etc.  They and every one of us can only keep the part of Torah that relates to us. As a man, don't have to nor can't keep the law given to my wife or to a Levitical priest. 
 
When the Torah stipulates that a sacrifice had to be done in Jerusalem at the temple and the temple is no longer there then that law can't be kept; well not yet. 
 
If Yeshua taught his disciples anything different than what was written in the Tenakh then He, and they, would have been rejected in accordance to Deut 13.  Not one Hebrew would have accepted Yeshua as their Messiah and to this day the Jews are still rejecting Him based on Deut 13. 
 
The church is however rejecting Deut 13 and says that Yeshua came with new "revelations" and the church now knows more.  No, in every instance that they talk about in the video Yeshua clarified Torah and He didn't abolish it. 
 
Thirdly, the new covenant hasn't come into effect yet. Jer 31:34 is the key verse to understand what the sign is of when the new covenant is in effect.  Let's read it in context... Jer 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the [e]house of Israel (the Northern Kingdom) and with the house of Judah (the Southern Kingdom), 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” says the LORD. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” says the LORD, “I will put My law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. 34And each man will no longer teach his neighbour and his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they will all know Me [through personal experience], from the least of them to the greatest,” says the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness, and I will no longer remember their sin.”  
 
We are all still teaching each other, so the new covenant isn't in place now; or we have missed the boat.  The church's doctrine is so wrong on this subject. 
 
My question will always be, why would Yeshua teach us the following Torah and then do the exact opposite? Matt 5:19 So whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them, he will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 
 
@MikeL  I have to put this back in your court, do you believe that we have to keep Torah?

· Reply · 1648589269

4 Replies

That depends on which version of it you follow, unfortunately. I follow the one that has the year beginning on March 16, 2022.

· Reply · 1647719730

What AM I out of my mind? I wrote this because it could happen. Remember we said this would never happen again. Here we are in a WORLD where Russia can attack and the rest of the world watches and where is our LONG TERM Memory about Hitler. How is Putin different? HE IS NOT! It looks like we are seeing countries just taking whatever they want. If Russia is allowed to do it then by NOT China or Iran? It is unbelievable that we are setting up the WHOLE WORLD to do evil without it being STOPPED. WHAT country will be next?

· Reply · 1647973428

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