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I want to call this Post: when sun and moon collide.

Coming to the understanding of Torah 8 years ago this month, my first question was: when is Shabbat?

My second question was: when does the day begin?

You won't believe me, but I am still on my journey to figure the latter out and this past Shabbat found two verses that is making me rethink the "evening" start and I would appreciate your view.

In the years of 2016 my view/beliefs was formed by what other ministries in the Torah movement said. It was compelling with much Scriptural evidence, so not worth closer scrutiny.

My main assumption was that the Passover started at the start of the day, but even that I now find is not proof. It could be like inviting someone over for a fireworks party, but it only starts after sunset. The start of the event has no impact on when the day starts...

So in Gen 19:34 we read: "Then the next day, the firstborn said to the younger, “Behold, I lay with my father last night; let us make him drunk with wine tonight also, and then you go in and lie with him, so that we may preserve our family through our father.”"

Shouldn't she have said: "Behold, I lay with my father this night/tonight; let us make him drunk with wine tomorrow tonight"?

Also, Lev 7: 15 says: "‘The meat of the sacrifice of thanksgiving presented as a peace offering shall be eaten on the day that it is offered; none of it shall be left until #morning."

Shouldn't it state "shall be eaten on the day that it is offered; none of it shall be left until #evening" if the day starts at #sunset?

I do understand that English translations would have substituted words to make it understandable. Like in the KJV "morrow" is used and it is "morning" in the Amplified. But the Strong's still indicate morning and evening, so is my understanding correct that these verses talks of the next morning as being part of the new day and the evening as the previous day?

#daystart #sunrise

Comment

Very interesting. I was aware of the first verse, not of the second.
I have been starting the day at sunrise for the past years. But also trying to verify again recently if it is really in line with scripture that way...
Just recently looked at Gen 19:34 again and realized there is apparently 2 different words for "yesterday" (אתמול) and "yesternight" (אמש)...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/emesh_570.htm
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/865.htm

· Reply · 1719838494

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I thought I did a comic on this, but cannot find it at the moment. It could just be I've done research somewhere of sunrise being the start of the day, as I used to have conversations with a friend that believed that way.

My two big "hang-ups" with changing when a day starts is what Yeshua did and Creation.

We have records of what the Jews were doing at the time and they were doing pretty much the same as they are today, especially for Sabbath. Evening to evening on what we call Friday to Saturday. He never once told them they were doing things incorrectly in that realm.

We have it repeated six times during the Creation account: evening THEN morning, a day. This isn't just the English, this is how the Hebrew reads as well.

With the example of our Savior and the definition of a day repeated so many times when the day was created, everything else has to fit that. If it sounds like it doesn't, more research needs to be done on why it doesn't seem like it does (is it poetry, an expression, etc..). Just like with Paul. We know from Acts Paul DIDN'T teach against Torah, so when you have a verse, like many of those in Galatians, that sound like he IS speaking against Torah, we have to step back, remember he isn't, and try to understand what is actually being said here.

· Reply · 1719965792

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Scriptural time divisions:
• Day - yom - that period of time during which the sun shines, or one full cycle of the sun, or in the absence of the sun one full cycle of some sort – depending upon context.
• Night - that period of time during full darkness.
• Morning – boqer – that period of time between sunrise and noon.
• Evening – erev – that period of time between high noon and sundown.
• Between the evenings - beyn ha arvai’im – that period of time between high noon and full sunset.
Also, while days were also divided into hours, there were no minutes, as only sundials governed those divisions. An hour was a relative marker denoting one of 12 equal divisions of daylight. Without clocks or sunlight, nights were divided into several “watches.” One of those was called the “dog-bark.” Another was called the “cock crow.” Think about that…

· Reply · 1720299042

Welcome to TTN. Do let me know if there is anything I can assist with.

You might want to join the UK Group so that we can get some momentum behind it. ?

· Reply · 1719827207

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Gret, it is an interesting walk. My dad was a pastor in our church so I had a lot of doctrines to reevaluate when we came to Torah.

Just keep a teachable spirit and test everything; as we are all still learning ourselves, even the teachers... ?