The Torah Network

22 w

Yeshua - Trinity

After some discussions last week, I did a bit more digging into the doctrine of the trinity and that Yeshua is not only divine, but God.

Two verses that are used as evidence that Yeshua is God are:

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of His kingdom.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding and insight so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

These verses made me wonder whether the Greek word `Theos` and English `God` are correctly used (not just translated) in all instances.

If I read Heb. 1:8 along with v9 then it paints a different picture.

Heb. 1:9 says: “You have loved righteousness and have hated lawlessness. Therefore God, Your God, Has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.”

Huh? Am I understanding this correctly? Yeshua has a God Himself in the traditional sense? How can the members in the "trinity" be unequal and equal at the same time?

If I then read 1 John 5:20 without the trinitarian doctrine overlay on it then it talks of Yeshua whom has given us understanding of `Him who is true` and Yeshua is His Son. Thus, the `Him who is true` that is spoken of can only be Father as Yeshua is refered to as "His Son Jesus Christ" and it is Father who is God in the last sentence. So the understanding of the verse therefore should be:

And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding and insight so that we may know `Him who is true`/Father; and we are in `Him who is true`/Father—in His Son Jesus Christ. This/Father is the true God and eternal life.

These two verses therefore doesn't support the trinity doctrine and actually proves that Father along is God. ?

Just to be clear, I believe that Yeshua is divine, the Son of Father, our High Priest, King of kings and Lord of lords, sits at the right hand of Father, is an exact copy of Father (as being the only begotten Son of Father, a single parent), Father will establish Yeshua's throne and subdue all his enemies before Him, but Yeshua is still not Father and therefore not God. There are way to many verses to list here that says that Father is God.

Remember that in days gone by, being divine was ascribed to an entity that was being venerated and not only gods. The Greek word theios - G2304 - (divine, godly) was derived from θεός (theos), meaning "God".

What do you see in these verses? Am I trying to superimpose my own understanding on these verses and therefore taking it too far to the other side?

#trinity #yeshua #god #divine

Comment

The points you make are valid here. I am imterested in seeing what other verses a person may have for or against this. The trinity has never sat well with me. Revelation says, three different times, that Yah is 7 spirits. The thrinity comes from ancient babylonian myths.

· Reply · 1731956809

1 Reply

While I don't believe that Yeshua is God, I do believe he is the Son of God and the Messiah. I also respect the beliefs of those who believe differently from how I believe. I believe that there is only one God who eternally existed who is the Father.

Sometimes, a person can be called "god" in a lesser sense. For example, Exodus 7:1 NKJV says, "So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet." This verse is not saying that Moses is a literal god, but he is as God to Pharaoh because Moses is God's representative.

The same goes for Yeshua. Any verses that seem to indicate that Yeshua is God should be taken figuratively, not literally. Yeshua represented God so well that he is "as God to us" just as Moses was "as God to Pharaoh". It makes sense since Yeshua is the prophet like Moses.

· Reply · 1732168559

6 Replies

I've said before, I am not a trinitarian. I used to believe that way.

I now see YHWH as one, and Yeshua is YHWH. GidgetsMom mentions the 7 Spirits from Revelation, we also have instances of YHWH being other "forms" throughout Scripture (man walking to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, person that wrestled Jacob, burning bush, etc...) We wouldn't say any of these are different beings than or parts of YHWH, they were YHWH.

To humanize it: I am Joshua. Joshua is a husband. Joshua is a father. Joshua is a cartoonist. And many other things. Are each of those different people, or still just me?

This is what makes most sense to me when reading Scripture. However, I can see where people get Trinity or 2 person (Father/Son) or Unitarian from Scripture, even though I don't agree with those stances.

It all goes back to trying to fit YHWH into a box. I did a comic about that a couple of years ago when what I was seeing was arguing and not just seeking to understand, but this point still stands true:

"Even in looking through the arguments these folks are having, they are just splitting hairs. All the verses being used to support one view can easily be used to support the other view as well. God is our Creator. He is a being that is beyond our comprehension to be able to understand so fully we can have a "box", a set of descriptors that fully encompasses Him. When He showed Himself to Moses, he covered Moses up and then only let him see his backside. How, if only one person even got a glimpse of Him and part of that was covered, could we say we can accurately and definitively describe God? We should show Him more reverence than that."

· Reply · 1732214093

4 Replies

Discover Posts

GidgetsMom

Mark Price

Joshua Myers