The Torah Network

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Question 172: What is demonic possession?

Answer:

Whether or not there are evil spirits and the fact of demon possession has often proved baffling to believers. Ephesians 6:12 for instance, is a recognition of the existence and power of evil spirits. It is intimated that there are kingdoms of evil, ruled by wicked beings, which are fighting the powers of good. Against these forces the believer, protected by the armour of YHVH, is called to fight. The expression "in high places" or as translated in the margin, "heavenly places," may mean in the "upper air," as some interpret it or as others hold, that even in the highest believer experiences we are subject to temptation (which is, of course, the case) and that we must contend with the evil spirits for the possession of these high places in the spiritual world. Although many rationalistic teachers have held that the Biblical cases of demon possession were nothing more than forms of epilepsy, violent hysteria, lunacy and other kinds of permanent or temporary mental derangement known at the present day, nothing has been actually proven which discredits the Scripture accounts and statements. Specialists today recognize the existence of recurrent mania, which sometimes assumes a destructive character. The Bible recognizes a form of lunacy different from demon possession. See Matthew 4:24. We know there are evil persons who, while alive in the flesh, do harm to others. Some have the definite experience of feeling themselves impelled to do wrong by an influence outside their own minds or bodies. Some present-day cases of insanity are really cases in which there are features that furnish a close parallel to demon possession. It is only fair to state however, that present-day theological opinion is divided on the subject. It is certain that the belief in demon possession was held in early times and for long ages thereafter and included at one time almost every form of mental disorder. On the other hand, it is urged that it is just as rational to believe in devils as to believe in angels. Angels are a race of personal holy beings; demons a race of personal vicious beings, both existing in a form other than human and corporeal.

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Frequently asked questions and answers:

Question 171: How are we to understand the act of creation?

Answer:

"Creation" means, in the orthodox sense, that YHVH of His own free will and by His absolute power, called the whole universe into being, evoking into existence that which before was non-existent. See Romans 4:17; Psalm 33:6, 9; Hebrews 3:4; Acts 17:24; Acts 14:15; Psalm 102:5; Jeremiah 10:12; John 1:3; Revelations 4:11. It is needless to speculate on these matters. If we concede the absolute power of YHVH, we must accept His power both to create and annihilate, as stated in the Scriptures. There are many problems which the finite mind cannot wholly grasp and which must be accepted by faith or left alone.

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Revelation 22 came across my reading again today looking at what Henk and I was talking about in another post. This chapter is talking of the new heaven and the new earth.

I got stuck on verses 14+15:

14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the immoral persons, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

- There is an inside and outside of the city.
- There are those with washed robes who may enter the city.
- There are those sinner outside the city.

I have so many questions which I hope you can help me with.

1. Who are these sinners
2. How can people still be sinning on the new earth if Yeshua is reigning?
3. Can they die?
4. Can those who washed their robes die?
5. If they can die and do so, what happens to them as death and hades has already been cast into the lake of fire?

#newearth #sin #sinners #death #hades #eternallife

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· Reply · 1737684161

2 Replies

I started looking at the origins of why I was taught that people have a soul. I was taught that we are body, soul and spirit.

The first reference is in Gen 2:7 where H5315 (nephesh) is translated as soul. But that same word is used for all living creatures during Noah's flood. The word is translated as soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind(15x), heart (15x), and 12 other words for a total of 753 occurrences.

It is a very wide use of the word nephesh, so is it correctly interpret if we say that animals don't have a soul? Or do they?? I know that a dog definitely looks like it has a soul and only some cats, but goat and sheep, no way; they just have a blank stare. ?

I looked at a large set of the verses and replacing all the occurrences with "life force" makes sense in the vast majority of verses.

If that is the case then the word nephesh is no indication that a soul was blown into Adam at creation, but that he was given life through a breath. That is like doing CPR on someone and giving them the "breath of life" while doing it.

So, where does the doctrine of a soul come from? Origen is a writer whom had a big influence at his time during the second century until he was rejected as a heretic. He introduced the concept of a soul from a pagan aspect, but strangely enough the church writings also started introducing the concept of a soul during that time.

It is one thing to use a word in a translation, but was the original meaning of the word understood to be that same translated word?

Does anyone have any understanding of where the concept of a soul originates from?

This looks to be an important part of the faith as if we are only body and spirit and our bodies are given a life force so that it becomes "moving reasoning clay" then the spirit is like the electricity in a copper wire (the wire being the body) that causes the spirit (the light coming from the light bulb) to emanate. The electricity/soul is only there fore a time to energize the body while alive and then no longer after death.

My thinking is, what use is it to torment a soul for ever and ever if it has no body to feel through? That is no torment at all, so a body has to be incarnated for the soul to be tormented. Therefore even the tormented souls would need a body and therefore eternal life...

I started looking at the origins of why I was taught that people have a soul.  I was taught that we are body, soul and spirit.   
 
The first reference is in Gen 2:7 where H5315 (nephesh) is translated as soul.  But that same word is used for all living creatures during Noah's flood.  The word is translated as soul (475x), life (117x), person (29x), mind(15x), heart (15x), and 12 other words for a total of 753 occurrences. 
 
It is a very wide use of the word nephesh, so is it correctly interpret if we say that animals don't have a soul?  Or do they??  I know that a dog definitely looks like it has a soul and only some cats, but goat and sheep, no way; they just have a blank stare. ? 
 
I looked at a large set of the verses and replacing all the occurrences with "life force" makes sense in the vast majority of verses. 
 
If that is the case then the word nephesh is no indication that a soul was blown into Adam at creation, but that he was given life through a breath.  That is like doing CPR on someone and giving them the "breath of life" while doing it. 
 
So, where does the doctrine of a soul come from?  Origen is a writer whom had a big influence at his time during the second century until he was rejected as a heretic.  He introduced the concept of a soul from a pagan aspect, but strangely enough the church writings also started introducing the concept of a soul during that time. 
 
It is one thing to use a word in a translation, but was the original meaning of the word understood to be that same translated word?  
 
Does anyone have any understanding of where the concept of a soul originates from?  
 
This looks to be an important part of the faith as if we are only body and spirit and our bodies are given a life force so that it becomes "moving reasoning clay" then the spirit is like the electricity in a copper wire (the wire being the body) that causes the spirit (the light coming from the light bulb) to emanate.  The electricity/soul is only there fore a time to energize the body while alive and then no longer after death. 
 
My thinking is, what use is it to torment a soul for ever and ever if it has no body to feel through? That is no torment at all, so a body has to be incarnated for the soul to be tormented. Therefore even the tormented souls would need a body and therefore eternal life...

· Reply · 1737890063

10 Replies

I'm not sure that 1-3 are post Millennium in context:

6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

7 “Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll.”

"I am coming soon," implies that it hasn't taken place yet, so I think this passage is describing an entire process that happens when the New Jerusalem makes an appearance. (In some sense being an eternal city, this is all ready true and always was, even though we don't see it from our perspective)

I think this idea helps explain some of the discrepancies you are trying to decipher here. Some assumptions that might help:

There is a description of the ultimate outcome, but then it flashes back to when the New Jerusalem appears due to the listener to whom the angel is telling that the return is coming soon. Hence, there is a culmination that finally leads to the ultimate outcome of the New Earth. When the New Jerusalem first appears, however, it is perhaps more like a satellite during the millennial reign. Therefore, people will still be doing the stuff mentioned in the narrative.

· Reply · 1738248510

2 Replies

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Thought for Today: Thursday January 23

The world around us will recognise us as disciples of Yeshua, when they see that our prayers are answered. And prayer should be the most important thing in your life. Should you neglect to pray for a single day, you may lose a great deal of the fervour of your faith.

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Found OOMs ✔️

A splendid mousepad, an eerie license plate, and "The Child sees the Will o’ the Wisps" from "The Story Without an End"

#dailyoom

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23 w

Found OOMs ✔️

A splendid mousepad, an eerie license plate, and "The Child sees the Will o’ the Wisps" from "The Story Without an End"

#dailyoom

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23 w

Found OOMs ✔️

A splendid mousepad, an eerie license plate, and "The Child sees the Will o’ the Wisps" from "The Story Without an End"

#dailyoom

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23 w

Found OOMs ✔️

A splendid mousepad, an eerie license plate, and "The Child sees the Will o’ the Wisps" from "The Story Without an End"

#dailyoom

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23 w

Created OOMs ?

To the left, and suddenly in a short office corridor. One door, just like the others, led to the maze. Behind a closet door and a curtain of plastic, a downward slanting tube of concrete, with no steps or hand-holds: though short, he was just able to brace his hands against the top as he made his way down.
At the bottom was a small straight bit, where the resonance was short and crisp, and the only light came from back up top. Little bits of either street litter or forest litter, hard to tell. The door was there: a heavy metal pizza of seven triangular sections.

#writtenoom #arneyofthemaze 2025-01-19

Did he wish there was an audience, an announcement? No, he decided: this was the good way, as though he found the maze himself in a back room.
The gate clicked like cold teeth, and hissed apart in its seven directions.
A hundred foot stretch, turning left at the end, and two other leftward openings before then. The walls were of a brick colour dulled grey, over twenty feet high, angled outward slightly as if tempting you to try climbing out. Some weak drops were falling from the fog blanketed sky.
As Arney stepped across the threshold, a tinny voice rang from somewhere:
"Arney Shipmen has entered the maze."
Oh well. It still smelled like dawn and challenge.

#writtenoom #arneyofthemaze 2025-01-21

#dailycreatedoom

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Sabbath Keepers Fellowship Weekly Torah Study

Join us on Zoom for prayer, fellowship and discussion of the weekly Torah portion, the Haftarah, the Writings of the Disciples, and the Min Hazaqen Torah Commentary.

Our small, friendly group welcomes beginners and those who are learned in the scriptures, and we always take time for questions and answers.

We begin at 7pm Central Time on the 5th day of each week. Here is the link: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/4731209848

Join Us!

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