The Torah Network

1 y

As you all may know, I am not a teacher at all. I do give my views on what others say, but do not have any formal training or studies to back up my questions and views.

I do however like to dig... dig at my beliefs, what others say, what history and science shows. This is an ongoing process which I do enjoy.

One of these foundational beliefs is in the #futurism of Revelation; which most of us have most likely grown up with. I know, I know. Some of you may be tired of my questions, but if we don't ask then we won't learn. ?

Below are 6 points which makes me wonder about my current view of history and the fulfilment of Scripture.

1 - Rev. 1:3 says: "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and who keep the things which are written in it; for the time is near."

2 - Then in Rev. 21:10 we read: "And he said to me, 'Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near.'"

So Revelation is not sealed up like Daniel and should be clear to understand for those who live during that time; which should have been "soon" for John writing it down.

3 - Rev. 1:7 then speaks of whom will be the audience to Yeshua's second coming: "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen."

"even those who #pierced Him" is a very specific group of people and seeing as His second coming is before the First and Second resurrection written in Rev. 20; it indicates to me that these people were still alive to see Yeshua coming in the clouds as they weren’t raised from the dead at His second coming.

4 - We then have #josephus writing:

War 6:289-300 Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.

Thus also, before the Jews’ rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan], and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which light lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshowed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the twenty-first day of the month Artemisius [Jyar], a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sunsetting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, “Let us remove hence.”

5 - #sepher #yosippon (A Mediaeval History of Ancient Israel) translated from the Hebrew by Steven B. Bowman. Excerpts from Chapter 87 "Burning of the Temple":

For one year before Vespasian came, a single great star shining like unsheathed swords was seen over the Temple. And in those days when the sign was seen it was the holiday of Passover and during that entire night the Temple was lit up and illuminated like the light of day, and thus it was all seven days of the Passover. All the sages of Jerusalem knew that it was a #malevolent sign, but the rest of the ignorant people said that it was a #benevolent sign. …Now it happened after this that there was seen from above over the Holy of Holies for the whole night the outline of a man's face, the like of whose beauty had never been seen in all the land, and his appearance was quite awesome. Moreover, in those days were seen chariots of fire and horsemen, a great force flying across the sky near to the ground coming against Jerusalem and all the land of Judah, all of them horses of fire and riders of fire. When the holiday of Shavu'oth came in those days, during the night the priests heard within the Temple something like the sound of men going and the sound of men marching in a multitude going into the Temple, and a terrible and mighty voice was heard speaking: "Let's go and leave this House."

6 - #pseudo-Hegesippus, Chapter 44. (Translated from the Latin by Wade Blocker. This excerpt taken from the Latin edited by Vincente Ussani):

Also after many days a certain figure appeared of tremendous size, which many saw, just as the books of the Jews have disclosed, and before the setting of the sun there were suddenly seen in the clouds chariots and armed battle arrays, by which cities of all Judaea and its territories were invaded. Moreover in the celebration itself of the Pentecost the priests entering the interior of the temple at night time, that they might celebrate the usual sacrifices, assured themselves at first to have a felt a certain movement and a sound given forth, afterwards even to have heard shouted in a sudden voice "we cross over from here."

Josephus, Sepher and Pseudo-Hegesippus describe near similar events:
1. a star like a sword, which could also be described as a cross, over Jerusalem
2. a large face or figure in the sky
3. an army in the heavens was observed
4. a voice that said that "they" (which could be the royal "we") will leave the temple.

The more I dig into #history the more I come to learn that a great amount of it has been left out of the mainstream, which heavily influences my thought process.

I am trying to find for myself the one proof that will convince me for a fact that Revelation is still to be fulfilled or has been already and would appreciate your input by answering this one question:

If you have to summarize your view that Revelation still has to be fulfilled or if you believe that most has been already, then what would that one point be that trumps all others which convinces you of your belief?

#starlikeasword #largeface #heavensarmies

Comment

You have raised many good points worthy of depth study.
I would say this, that archeology is a good marker for historical events, however, history does not always agree with archeology or vice versa. What do we base history upon?
That’s the diffulty. History or its account can be very biased.
The biblical account written in the Tanakh is fundamentally a synopsis of events accounted by Moses, There are. Many gaps to be filled. Historical events , as told by the winners, a you say, are like fisherman’s tales. What can be believed? Was Josephus , after becoming a Roman citizen, influenced by his culture or by the commission, for example?
How accurate was he in his account of the history of the Jews?
However, I believe that the ancients were pretty good at keeping accounts.

I would consider this, however, does history lead a man to the salvation of his soul?
The word of God is the power of God unto salvation . Is there an historical account that can do this?

Here is a passage from

Isaiah 43 18“Do not call to mind the former things;
pay no attention to the things of old.
19Behold, I am about to do something new;
even now…

Does the word of God admonish this for a reason?

· Reply · 1722018924

1 Reply

Personally, I have long believed we are waiting for the sixth scroll to open: the great quake, the sun darkening, the moon turning red, the stars falling like figs. Will these events happen all at once? Or will they be spread out over months? That is unclear, but if they happen over months, then perhaps we are waiting for the steps up to the seventh scroll because these things happen annually.

· Reply · 1722019584

1 Reply

Also, , in response to #2:

Rev 10:4 LSV and when the seven thunders spoke their voices, I was about to write, and I heard a voice out of Heaven saying to me, “Seal the things that the seven thunders spoke,” and, “You may not write these things.”

So SOME of revelation is sealed up.

· Reply · 1722027410

1 Reply

Discover Posts

Grant Marshall

GidgetsMom

GidgetsMom

Rhy Bezuidenhout